<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Was King Tim III the First?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:34:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crate Digging: Ann-Margret, Peter Brown, Fatback, Dazz Band</title>
		<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/comment-page-1/#comment-44188</link>
		<dc:creator>Crate Digging: Ann-Margret, Peter Brown, Fatback, Dazz Band</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyrollerproductions.com/?p=419#comment-44188</guid>
		<description>[...] the first rapper?&#8221; and &#8220;what is the first recorded rap song?&#8221; are hotly debated. This article sums it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the first rapper?&#8221; and &#8220;what is the first recorded rap song?&#8221; are hotly debated. This article sums it [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: holyroller</title>
		<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/comment-page-1/#comment-2195</link>
		<dc:creator>holyroller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 17:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyrollerproductions.com/?p=419#comment-2195</guid>
		<description>Hey Frank thanks for your input
we seem to have erased your Michael Holman comment
please can youresend it thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Frank thanks for your input<br />
we seem to have erased your Michael Holman comment<br />
please can youresend it thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/comment-page-1/#comment-2185</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 22:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyrollerproductions.com/?p=419#comment-2185</guid>
		<description>Hi, I doubt that the tune „Enterprise“ can be seen as the first „original“ rap release from the than uncalled HipHop scene out of its Bronx/NY origins.

The Enterprise tune is from the Broadway musical  &quot;The Runaways&quot;, which was written, composed and directed by Elizabeth Swados. 
It opened on Broadway  on May 13, 1978, and ran through the end of the year.

It is about the lives of children who run away from home and live on the city streets. The idea was born in early 77. Swados than got in contact with Joseph Papp of New Yorks Shakespeare Festival/Public Theater, who was the producer for Hair and A Chorus Line before. Swados tells the story like this: 

&quot;Runaways  is a musical theatre piece which was in the works for a year. When I went to Joseph Papp in May of 1977, I had no script, no songs, no story line — just an idea, and an intuition about the potential of adolescents and how they have been grossly underestimated. (...) I wanted to tap the energy of young people. I have seen them excel professionally in athletics, pop and classical music, and I knew there was a real possibility fo rthe same kind of dedication in the theatre — beyond &quot;cutesiness,&quot; beyond cliché.&quot;

The characters were taken from workshops conducted by Swados with real-life runaways in 77. Some in the cast were runaways, but they were led by a bunch of proffesional actors. 

Swados states: „Since May 1977 till May of 1978, I was subsidised by the New York Shakespeare Fesitval and did hundreds of interviews, auditions, workshops and rehearsals. I was uplifted by the imagination and spirit of some of the kids I met. I was also appalled at the potential apathy and resignation in these same individuals. In the four-month period of auditions, I saw over two thousand kids at schools, community centres and museums. I was looking for kids who were ornery, athletic, imaginative and, if not overtly political, somehow aware that the human race was in a mess. Contrary to some reports, the cast is not made up of twelve scraggly runaways whom I mercifully rescued from the streets. There are some runaways. Also, there are experienced actors who served as anchors and helped set a certain professional standard.“
Swados&#039; musical approach makes use of recitative and a variety of contemporary pop and rock styles, particularly the kind of Latin and Caribbean rhythms heard frequently on the streets of New York City in 77. She incorporated musical styles ranging from salsa, disco, mambo, cha-cha, samba, blues, country-western, calypso, marching band music, latin music, childrens music, reggae rhytms, ragtime striptease music and even punk. The tune &quot;Where Are Those People Who Did &#039;Hair&#039;&quot; is a failed attempt at punk rock from a composer who admits she doesn&#039;t know what punk is. 
Swados states: In the five months of rehearsals and workshops, I wrote hours of songs, and the company did multitudes of improvisations. One of the most important things we all learned is that the imagination can take you out of your own spiritual ghetto. I didn&#039;t want to be romantic about the project or deal with psychological and social problems in soap opera terms. There was an energy, a courage, an honesty in the kids that would constantly challenge my more clichéd artistic notions. Their way of speaking, their rhythms, the look in their eyes; they influenced me. I couldn&#039;t have done it without them. A lot of what I wanted to write was in my head, but much of it came from workshops. I&#039;d ask them questions and they would tell me stories. I would sit for hours thinking what would be exactly the right questions that would help me write. They could lie, or they could tell the truth. I&#039;d watch them, feel the pressures on them, become concerned about them. Then I&#039;d go off, and suddenly there would be a song just from having been with them. I would combine my own artistic sensibilities with the truth of their emotions. The way I work music, there&#039;s no difference between the music and the words. I think you can make songs of how people talk. When we did interviews around the city, I would ask the more troubled kids, &quot;What do you do in your spare time?&quot; Most of the answers were things like smoke reefer or beat each other up. The only constructive thing they ever said was &quot;play basketball.&quot; That was constant and common“.
Refering to the song „Enterprise&quot; she states: „It takes the spoken word and sets it to rhythm. One of my favourite things in the world is to take mountains of words and fit them into measures. There&#039;s gorgeous music in the spoken voice that people never recognise as music.&quot;
This spoken word we hear on „Enterprise“ is performed by Karen Evans, by than a proffessional actress. It could be that she is from the bronx, and that she knew what was going on at those blockpartys. And some of those 2000 kids in 1977 could have explained Mrs.Swado what was going on in the Bronx, but at the end, this is not a recorded representation of the original scene that was gathering around turntables and big speakers to listen to breakbeats and dance to. 

It is what a outside composer made up of storys she heard from third persons. Mrs.Swado not only composed the music, she wrote the words too. These lyrics are than chaneled through a broadway actress who performed it in a way she got explained by hear say. This is a copy of a copy.

To be honest, a brilliant and impressive copy, a proto-sociopoltical-critical gangsta rap. But no way is this a original Bronx rap from 1978 on vinyl, nor from any other borough of NY from that time.

„Rappers Delight“ by the Sugarhill Gang was released in september of 1979.“King Tim III (Personality Jock)“ was released 2 month earlier, so we talking about july 1979. This means there are 6 month before this release came out in 1979. I bet that there is a 12“ release before the Fatback Band. 

Unfortunatley I can’t tell you which was the first „original“ HipHop 12“m but you should add these records too to your 12“ list from 1979.

12 Inches
Troy Rainey - Tricky Tee Rap
P.J. LaBoy - Baya Latinos
First Class - Rappin&#039; It Up
Willie Wood &amp; Willie Wood Crew - Willie Rap
Steve Gordon &amp; The Kosher Five - Take My Rap...Please
Sicle Cell &amp; Rhapazooty - Rhapazooty In Blue
Neil B / Brooklyn Express - Body Rock / Body Rock
Dr. Superman &amp; Lady Sweet - Can You Do It (Superman)
Wackies Disco Rock Band - Wack Rap
Scoopy - Scoopy Rap
Eddie Cheba - Lookin&#039; Good (Shake Your Body)
David Lampell - I Ran Iran
Joe Bataan - Rap-O Clap-O
Family - Family Rap
Bramsam - Move Your Body
Jocko - Rhythm Talk
Uno - Boogie Beat
Spoonin Gee - Spoonin Rap
Mr. Q - Love &amp; Time
Mr. Q - Ladies Delight 
Mr. Q - D.J. Style


And to add some odd stuff too, listen to this Joan Baez Tune called „Time Rag“. http://www.zshare.net/audio/539849634eadeac4/

Its from here 1977 album called „Blown away“ and she calls it a „talking disco Blues“. 
But she is spitting fire on that tune. Dissing the hell out of the Time magazine and she even does some sounds at the very end which reminds me of scratching. 

Whatever here ist the song performed accapella in 1977 on the tonight show.

Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DGF1tQ8V4o

Embed
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I doubt that the tune „Enterprise“ can be seen as the first „original“ rap release from the than uncalled HipHop scene out of its Bronx/NY origins.</p>
<p>The Enterprise tune is from the Broadway musical  &#8220;The Runaways&#8221;, which was written, composed and directed by Elizabeth Swados.<br />
It opened on Broadway  on May 13, 1978, and ran through the end of the year.</p>
<p>It is about the lives of children who run away from home and live on the city streets. The idea was born in early 77. Swados than got in contact with Joseph Papp of New Yorks Shakespeare Festival/Public Theater, who was the producer for Hair and A Chorus Line before. Swados tells the story like this: </p>
<p>&#8220;Runaways  is a musical theatre piece which was in the works for a year. When I went to Joseph Papp in May of 1977, I had no script, no songs, no story line — just an idea, and an intuition about the potential of adolescents and how they have been grossly underestimated. (&#8230;) I wanted to tap the energy of young people. I have seen them excel professionally in athletics, pop and classical music, and I knew there was a real possibility fo rthe same kind of dedication in the theatre — beyond &#8220;cutesiness,&#8221; beyond cliché.&#8221;</p>
<p>The characters were taken from workshops conducted by Swados with real-life runaways in 77. Some in the cast were runaways, but they were led by a bunch of proffesional actors. </p>
<p>Swados states: „Since May 1977 till May of 1978, I was subsidised by the New York Shakespeare Fesitval and did hundreds of interviews, auditions, workshops and rehearsals. I was uplifted by the imagination and spirit of some of the kids I met. I was also appalled at the potential apathy and resignation in these same individuals. In the four-month period of auditions, I saw over two thousand kids at schools, community centres and museums. I was looking for kids who were ornery, athletic, imaginative and, if not overtly political, somehow aware that the human race was in a mess. Contrary to some reports, the cast is not made up of twelve scraggly runaways whom I mercifully rescued from the streets. There are some runaways. Also, there are experienced actors who served as anchors and helped set a certain professional standard.“<br />
Swados&#8217; musical approach makes use of recitative and a variety of contemporary pop and rock styles, particularly the kind of Latin and Caribbean rhythms heard frequently on the streets of New York City in 77. She incorporated musical styles ranging from salsa, disco, mambo, cha-cha, samba, blues, country-western, calypso, marching band music, latin music, childrens music, reggae rhytms, ragtime striptease music and even punk. The tune &#8220;Where Are Those People Who Did &#8216;Hair&#8217;&#8221; is a failed attempt at punk rock from a composer who admits she doesn&#8217;t know what punk is.<br />
Swados states: In the five months of rehearsals and workshops, I wrote hours of songs, and the company did multitudes of improvisations. One of the most important things we all learned is that the imagination can take you out of your own spiritual ghetto. I didn&#8217;t want to be romantic about the project or deal with psychological and social problems in soap opera terms. There was an energy, a courage, an honesty in the kids that would constantly challenge my more clichéd artistic notions. Their way of speaking, their rhythms, the look in their eyes; they influenced me. I couldn&#8217;t have done it without them. A lot of what I wanted to write was in my head, but much of it came from workshops. I&#8217;d ask them questions and they would tell me stories. I would sit for hours thinking what would be exactly the right questions that would help me write. They could lie, or they could tell the truth. I&#8217;d watch them, feel the pressures on them, become concerned about them. Then I&#8217;d go off, and suddenly there would be a song just from having been with them. I would combine my own artistic sensibilities with the truth of their emotions. The way I work music, there&#8217;s no difference between the music and the words. I think you can make songs of how people talk. When we did interviews around the city, I would ask the more troubled kids, &#8220;What do you do in your spare time?&#8221; Most of the answers were things like smoke reefer or beat each other up. The only constructive thing they ever said was &#8220;play basketball.&#8221; That was constant and common“.<br />
Refering to the song „Enterprise&#8221; she states: „It takes the spoken word and sets it to rhythm. One of my favourite things in the world is to take mountains of words and fit them into measures. There&#8217;s gorgeous music in the spoken voice that people never recognise as music.&#8221;<br />
This spoken word we hear on „Enterprise“ is performed by Karen Evans, by than a proffessional actress. It could be that she is from the bronx, and that she knew what was going on at those blockpartys. And some of those 2000 kids in 1977 could have explained Mrs.Swado what was going on in the Bronx, but at the end, this is not a recorded representation of the original scene that was gathering around turntables and big speakers to listen to breakbeats and dance to. </p>
<p>It is what a outside composer made up of storys she heard from third persons. Mrs.Swado not only composed the music, she wrote the words too. These lyrics are than chaneled through a broadway actress who performed it in a way she got explained by hear say. This is a copy of a copy.</p>
<p>To be honest, a brilliant and impressive copy, a proto-sociopoltical-critical gangsta rap. But no way is this a original Bronx rap from 1978 on vinyl, nor from any other borough of NY from that time.</p>
<p>„Rappers Delight“ by the Sugarhill Gang was released in september of 1979.“King Tim III (Personality Jock)“ was released 2 month earlier, so we talking about july 1979. This means there are 6 month before this release came out in 1979. I bet that there is a 12“ release before the Fatback Band. </p>
<p>Unfortunatley I can’t tell you which was the first „original“ HipHop 12“m but you should add these records too to your 12“ list from 1979.</p>
<p>12 Inches<br />
Troy Rainey &#8211; Tricky Tee Rap<br />
P.J. LaBoy &#8211; Baya Latinos<br />
First Class &#8211; Rappin&#8217; It Up<br />
Willie Wood &amp; Willie Wood Crew &#8211; Willie Rap<br />
Steve Gordon &amp; The Kosher Five &#8211; Take My Rap&#8230;Please<br />
Sicle Cell &amp; Rhapazooty &#8211; Rhapazooty In Blue<br />
Neil B / Brooklyn Express &#8211; Body Rock / Body Rock<br />
Dr. Superman &amp; Lady Sweet &#8211; Can You Do It (Superman)<br />
Wackies Disco Rock Band &#8211; Wack Rap<br />
Scoopy &#8211; Scoopy Rap<br />
Eddie Cheba &#8211; Lookin&#8217; Good (Shake Your Body)<br />
David Lampell &#8211; I Ran Iran<br />
Joe Bataan &#8211; Rap-O Clap-O<br />
Family &#8211; Family Rap<br />
Bramsam &#8211; Move Your Body<br />
Jocko &#8211; Rhythm Talk<br />
Uno &#8211; Boogie Beat<br />
Spoonin Gee &#8211; Spoonin Rap<br />
Mr. Q &#8211; Love &amp; Time<br />
Mr. Q &#8211; Ladies Delight<br />
Mr. Q &#8211; D.J. Style</p>
<p>And to add some odd stuff too, listen to this Joan Baez Tune called „Time Rag“. <a href="http://www.zshare.net/audio/539849634eadeac4/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zshare.net/audio/539849634eadeac4/</a></p>
<p>Its from here 1977 album called „Blown away“ and she calls it a „talking disco Blues“.<br />
But she is spitting fire on that tune. Dissing the hell out of the Time magazine and she even does some sounds at the very end which reminds me of scratching. </p>
<p>Whatever here ist the song performed accapella in 1977 on the tonight show.</p>
<p>Link<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DGF1tQ8V4o" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DGF1tQ8V4o</a></p>
<p>Embed</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: holyroller</title>
		<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/comment-page-1/#comment-2132</link>
		<dc:creator>holyroller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 12:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyrollerproductions.com/?p=419#comment-2132</guid>
		<description>Hey Jim C thanks for your comment.

Well the block party tapes exsist, but it all depends on what years you&#039;re looking for..
Theres some links to old school tapes right here on Holyroller.

That word evidence... We prefer to use it in the context of  &quot;In our view we see songs like Enterprise as providing further evidence that the seeds of hiphop were already growing in NYC some time before major labels saw commercial value in hipphop as a music or a movement&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jim C thanks for your comment.</p>
<p>Well the block party tapes exsist, but it all depends on what years you&#8217;re looking for..<br />
Theres some links to old school tapes right here on Holyroller.</p>
<p>That word evidence&#8230; We prefer to use it in the context of  &#8220;In our view we see songs like Enterprise as providing further evidence that the seeds of hiphop were already growing in NYC some time before major labels saw commercial value in hipphop as a music or a movement&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim C</title>
		<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/comment-page-1/#comment-2131</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 May 2010 10:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyrollerproductions.com/?p=419#comment-2131</guid>
		<description>Interesting article. I was wondering if there were any recordings of those block parties in the 70s that have survived. However unlikely it is, it would be great to hear Kool Herc/Coke La Rock in action.

Anyway I&#039;m keen on finding out more about this Enterprise song. Definitely sounds like old-school rap to me, but who was the artist and where is the evidence of it coming out in 78?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article. I was wondering if there were any recordings of those block parties in the 70s that have survived. However unlikely it is, it would be great to hear Kool Herc/Coke La Rock in action.</p>
<p>Anyway I&#8217;m keen on finding out more about this Enterprise song. Definitely sounds like old-school rap to me, but who was the artist and where is the evidence of it coming out in 78?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: holyroller</title>
		<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/comment-page-1/#comment-1943</link>
		<dc:creator>holyroller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyrollerproductions.com/?p=419#comment-1943</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment Sean E

I haven&#039;t heard this record you mentioned. I believe TKdisco is the same label that released a Blowfly track that has also been touted as the 1st rap song...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment Sean E</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t heard this record you mentioned. I believe TKdisco is the same label that released a Blowfly track that has also been touted as the 1st rap song&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sean E</title>
		<link>http://holyrollerproductions.com/blog/unsung/king-tim-iii-skate-jam/comment-page-1/#comment-1815</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 20:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holyrollerproductions.com/?p=419#comment-1815</guid>
		<description>Ha Ha I still see Jive!!!!...gonna tell him to read this!!! GREAT READ!!!Appreciate the research and passion!!!
Have you heard the Funky Mule Saloon session...B side to &quot;That&#039;s it&quot; 12   by    Madame Funkfly  1977 / TK Disco ?!!..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha Ha I still see Jive!!!!&#8230;gonna tell him to read this!!! GREAT READ!!!Appreciate the research and passion!!!<br />
Have you heard the Funky Mule Saloon session&#8230;B side to &#8220;That&#8217;s it&#8221; 12   by    Madame Funkfly  1977 / TK Disco ?!!..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

